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SciBee

Why some tabs are slow and laggy and others are not

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definitio    13

I've measured my cpu

19mmx19mm, so buy 20x20 one (it is a common size)

I'm not sure about thickness of the pad, but I would go for 1,5mm.

 

Cheers.

 

i opened the tab and saw that there was a pad of some sort, but it was placed on the yellow tape there, not making contact with the aluminum backplate. I decided to leave it as is and not mess with it more.

 

No cpu temp detected, so I can only say "burn baby burn"...

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highvolt    0

Strange. I have cooling pad right now connected with a back of my tab. Ive locked my cpu freq beetwen 916 and 19200. Running stress test with havy load for cpu. Cpu tempplus shows high usage of max freq but temp still keeps on 31C .I can feel slight temperature diference at the back of tab this is still not reflcted in the cpu temp measurment. Should it be like that?

Wysłane z mojego ONDA A9 Core4 przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

It also happens to me. For some reason some cpu's are not reporting the temperature. Possibly hardware issue.

 

This has the following outcomes. There is no temperature throttling because as far as the governor knows your cpu is running at 30ºC, this also causes instability on the cpu so now I understand why sometimes my tablet freezes without apparent reason.

 

I have already cut the yellow tape inside my tablet and put the thermal pad in the right place. So far the tablet is working better now. Thanks!

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SciBee    185

This has the following outcomes. There is no temperature throttling because as far as the governor knows your cpu is running at 30ºC, this also causes instability on the cpu so now I understand why sometimes my tablet freezes without apparent reason.

You are correct!

 

As far as I can see now there are some major bugs in the tabs. And the bugs can't be bound to a edition (V1/V3/V4).

Bugs:

  1. The CPU temperature is not read on some devices. As far as I can see this happens on all V1 and some V3 devices. At least one V4 shows the CPU temp.

    This might be caused by a hardware bug, by sensors not beeing mounted or by a CPU revision (stepping). As I could not get hold of a M802 dataseet including revision history until now I can't tell the real cause.

  2. The cutout in the yellow isolating foil seams to be generally missing. Until now it seems that I'm the only person with a V3 that came without a pad at all. Obviously Onda simply forgot to mount it.

    This missing cutout is a major design error and leads to unnecessarily increased CPU temperatures and also leads to the misplacement of the pad - if there is one.

  3. The thickness of the pad sometimes does not suit the mechanical distance between the CPU and the back for tolerance reasons. Sandpit - you obviously still have a gap between your CPU and the pad or your CPU would not get so hot!

    As you are on stock 1.1.0 your governor ignores CPU temp and therefor does not step down the clock.

I'd like to make some suggestions:

Run the test as described in the OP. Depending on the results:

  • If your CPU temp stays below 60°C:

    Everything is ok. No need to open the tab.

  • If your CPU temp always remains at 30°C...31°C OR if it rises to ~70°C or more:

    You can't be sure if you have a cooling pad at all or if it is in contact with the back.

    • Open the tab.
    • Remove the pad if there is one.
    • Make the corresponding cutout in the yellow isolating foil.
    • Remount the pad.
    • Put a very thin layer of thermal grease onto your CPU.
    • Completely close the tab. DO NOT PRESS the back in the area of the CPU. Reopen the tab.
    • If the thermal grease was transferred to the pad and the imprint looks ok then simply wipe off the grease and close your tab - you're done.
    • If the thermal grease was NOT transferred to the pad or the imprint is insufficient you either need a thicker thermal pad or you might add a little bit of the T630 material to the pad for example.

      The required thickness is hard to determine. Please remember that you MUST NOT use a pad which is much too thick because it will press your PCB towards the display.

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definitio    13

It also happens to me. For some reason some cpu's are not reporting the temperature. Possibly hardware issue.

 

This has the following outcomes. There is no temperature throttling because as far as the governor knows your cpu is running at 30ºC, this also causes instability on the cpu so now I understand why sometimes my tablet freezes without apparent reason.

 

I have already cut the yellow tape inside my tablet and put the thermal pad in the right place. So far the tablet is working better now. Thanks!

 

How can you tell / measure it is working better? You mean you have not had a freeze yet?

If this is the case, I believe the correct remark would be "I have not had a freeze yet", not that "the tablet is working better", unless you are seeing other benefits.

 

In any case the conclusion is not certain because we are talking about some kind of "inductive reasoning" here.

 

If you don't have a freeze again over a period of time while on the same working scenarios, then we could talk of significant change.

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highvolt    0

How can you tell / measure it is working better? You mean you have not had a freeze yet?

If this is the case, I believe the correct remark would be "I have not had a freeze yet", not that "the tablet is working better", unless you are seeing other benefits.

In any case the conclusion is not certain because we are talking about some kind of "inductive reasoning" here.

If you don't have a freeze again over a period of time while on the same working scenarios, then we could talk of significant change.

To clarify. I didn't have a freeze wet since I cut off the yellow adhesive.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

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SciBee    185

A freeze from times to times is not the major problem.

You forget the thermal stress of the components. Increased temperatures significantly reduce the lifetime of the components!

And we are not talking about an hour or two after two years of use. We are talking of six months instead of two years!

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danistov    0

I've measured my cpu

19mmx19mm, so buy 20x20 one (it is a common size)

I'm not sure about thickness of the pad, but I would go for 1,5mm.

 

Does anyone else thinks that the thickness of the pad is 1.5?

 

apologies for my english :)

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Sandpit    3

Okay, took the back off again for another look.

 

First, the thickness of the pad is 1.0mm

 

Then I added a very thin film of vantec thermal paste and put the cover on carefully. Tested the temp again and got a peak of 70 again. On removing the back once more, only about 1/3 of the pad, nearest the side, had paste on, 2/3 of the pad was not in contact. I added a little more paste to hopefully improve that contact area little and temp now peaks at 68.

 

There was an indent on the pad of the chip the first time I took the back off but of course, cutting the film away also has the effect of taking the pad away from the cpu, I'm guessing 0.1mm-0.2mm so it's actually possible that cutting the film away may actually make the situation worse! Also consider that we don't know the thermal properties of the yellow film, it may be a good heat conductor.

 

By the way, when measuring the temp, run the test at least 3 times or you will get inaccurate readings. On first run from cold I always peak below 60, so make sure you get it up to consistent temp before assuming your cooling is adequate.

 

I will order a 1.5mm thermal pad and try that. I may also order a fresh 1.0mm pad as the original may have squashed down, causing the gap once the film is removed.

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SciBee    185

Soft thermal interface pads like the one that's used should be compressed a little while mounted.

We normally use a compression ratio of 15%...40% depending on the material. As you measured a thickness of 1.0mm I suggest to try a 1.5mm pad if you exchange it.

The thickness of isolating polyimide films range between ~0.06mm...0.1mm. So this does not really count concerning the contact of the pad.

The primary target of polyimide films is to electrically isolate and not to transfer heat.

The thermal conductivity of a Kapton/Mylar/Polyimide film is ~0,12W/m⋅K while a thermal interface pad has (many types available) up to 4.5W/m⋅K or more.

I suggest to use a shore00 hardness of 25 or less or the CPU PCB will be pressed towards the display.

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Sandpit    3

Thanks for that detailed info.

 

I ordered a 1.5mm pad but a 1mm arrived through the post! Waiting to resolve that. I couldn't however find any source of a shore00 of 25 or less, 40 was the best I could find and most cpu pads seem to be shore C scale, which as I understand is much firmer. Any idea where I could get a better pad? (I'm UK btw)

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micbanand    26

3x antutu before removing plastik 309xx

3x antutu after 314xx

on rozak 2.01 4gb no tweaks.

So will say it's better to cut plastik away around cpu.

no temp readings on my v3 (allways 30 )

out of pasta. will also ad that, when I get some.

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Sandpit    3

I installed the new 1.5mm pad so the seal should be good now. The new peak CPU temps now reach 62°C so that's an 8°C improvement.

 

No impact on performance as the V4/1.1.0 combo doesn't seem to throttle CPU Antutu hitting 30K+ as ever

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tminus3    0

With a V975M on order, I was reading this thread with great interest. Im not opposed to a little tweaking, so I was keen to find out my results as soon as my tablet arrived.

Now that I've had my hands on it for a few days, I'd like to share my result (stock oem ROM, most Chinese apps disabled or removed, Nova launcher, no tweaks):

Antutu scores around 30500 with 8000+ 3D score, max temperature around 60°c with a single run.

Antutu X scores around 22000 with 5500 3D score, max temperature around 60°c with a single run.

Max cpu frequency in both benchmarks is 1608Mhz as soon as the temp starts to climb over approx. 40°c. Judging by the 3D graphics scores, the GPU must be significant throttled down as well when the SoC gets hot.

When I stop and restart Antutu after the CPU benchmarks, temps rise to beyond 75°c in my tablet! When playing actual 3D games (Real Racing3) temperature doesn't climb past 55°c.

I haven't had the chance to open up the tablet to see if there is a thermal pad, but it sure looks like my tablet could benefit from better heat dissipation.

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Meh, my v975m V3 has no temp. sensor, so basically it is showing 30C all the way. So not going to mod the freq to 1.9 GHz yet, until I open the tablet and make sure about having a thermal pad there. Antutu scores 30000+ with the current setup. 

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resnick    30

I would say there is no problem of lack of thermal sensor. I dont understand how but for me ( I have also fixed cpu temp readings 30'C) the thermal logs located in sys/devices/system/cpu are hard coded to "30". Can someone who have dynamic proven cpu temp. readings check what they have inside this logs ?

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lospider    10

I just opened my V1 and it doesn't have the pad. Also, the yellow film doesn't have any cutout (like all others).

I'm experiencing some lag and crashes after installing Operation Killjoy. So, I'll reduce the cpu frequency to 1600 until my thermal pad arrives.

What else do you guys suggest?

Are you being able to reduce the temps with Scibee's tips/tutorial??

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lospider    10

Did the 1mm pad fit perfectly? I'm asking this because I can't find the 1,5mm in my country, so I'd have to order via ebay and it will take more than one month to arrive...

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lospider    10

I replaced my 1mm with 1.5mm as the 1mm did not make full contact.

Thanks, Sandpit!

Did you use any thermal paste (like ArticSilver) between the processor and the thermal pad?

How are your temps now? Did the lag stop?

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grusl    0

Hey,

I own an Onda 975m V3 with ONDA_V975m_V3_v2.0.1_rozak_20140515-2G.rar ROM.

I was wondering why the tablet lags while scrolling in google chrome and even google playstore.

Installing trickster mod and using your settings, it seems scrolling more smooth.

 

I also tested Antutu with the new settings and CpuTempPlus temp didn't get higher then 56° for me.

 

 

Obviously your CPU is in good contact with the cooler. So you can lean back and be happy.

 

I hope this means the same for me.

 

Im a bit disappointed from the tablet, cause it seems the micro usb port is in bad contact with the cable. I have to plugin the cable real hard so it recognizes the USB on PC. The USB OTG Cable and the Ethernet to usb adapter also has the problem. If i move a bit, it looses contact and the internet connection gets disconnected. I have to re-plug the cable to make ethernet work again. This is really annoying.

I tested 3 different ROM's, the original official firmware, the official 4.4.2 update, and the rozak custom 4.4.2. The ethernet/OTG cable didn't even work with the official 4.4.2 firmware. It freezes the tablet when i plugin the OTG cable every time.

I found this post and it seems it's an 4.4.2 issue. http://forums.androidcentral.com/android-4-4-kitkat/360769-kitkat-trouble-otg-bluetooth.html

 

Im glad the rozak custom 4.4.2 fixes the ethernet/OTG problem!

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H5M    1

My V975m (32GB)V4, with stability test Antutu X  MAX temp 59°c, Max cpu frequency  is 1608Mhz.

Score with Antutu X  - 22006

Score with Antutu - 30740

After cut the yellow tape - 55°c :)

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